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I've noticed others on this message board had started threads dealing with the threat posed by dominion theology, and it's relation to Pentecostalism. So I thought that it might be appropiate to post what this one dominionist I know on Facebook posted, and my responses to him, without mentioning the person by name. I think that even some ex-pentecostals might be shocked by some of his remarks.
So what do you all think? Did I respond well? Sometimes I find it so hard to know what to reply with, to such people whom are so counterintuitive, and irrational.
Dominionist- One has to wonder whether we are already in a totalitarian elitist government. The problem is that we would not know it, because the main method for control today seems to be manipulation, not force. This video from Francis Schaeffer is a good illustration of how media can be used for manipulation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qcjvdhV2Ok
Compare that to what Cass Sunstein, Obama's communications Czar, said:
Once you know that people are human and have some Homer Simpson in them, then there's a lot that can be done to manipulate them-Cass Sunstein [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxIxu_quwAY]
Jason StumpnerThe only thing I have to post in reply is Matt.7:3. That and also pot meet kettle. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I mean the christianazis try to progate their ways through propoganda. And, for what it's worth, I think th...at there is nothing more elitist than claiming that one is elected by God unto salvation, and should furthermore have theonomic domination over all of creation, while everyone else shall deservingly be sentenced to everlasting torture in Hell. So I suppose that in summary, my point would be, what's the point?See More Dominionist-Jason, some Christians do engage in propaganda, certainly, and it is wrong. However, our goal, based upon what the Bible teaches, is to proclaim the gospel, which the Holy Spirit uses to change hearts and minds. The problem with your argume...nt is that the gospel offends people. You don't manipulate people by offending them; especially in today's society offending someone is the fastest way to get someone to *not* listen to you! Thus, that is not a brilliant propaganda strategy.
Also, you have misrepresented the doctrine of election. The second point of Calvinism is *unconditional* election. That is, my election is not due to *anything* in me. It is not because I was better, smarter, or much more in tune to reality. It was totally by the grace of God. Secondly, it is not *me* that has dominion, but it is *Christ* that has dominion. We will reign with Christ, but it is ultimately *his* dominion, and we will lay our crowns down at *his* feet. Jason, that isn't elitist; that is true humility and submission to God.
Jason, again what we find is that you don't understand Christian theology, and you don't understand the self-destructive nature of the humanism you have embraced. You can't have freedom in such a society without chaos. You can't have forms to society without totalitarianism. In a humanist view of reality, freedom and form are contradictory. If you give people freedom, there is no way to prevent anarchy. If you try to impose forms on society, you end up with totalitarianism, because finite human beings are not omniscient, and have to exert more and more control to make sure that the forms of a society are preserved. As Schaeffer shows over and over again in this video series, that is what has happened every time a humanistic worldview has gotten a foothold in a society. That is where the false gospel of humanism leads you.
The point of the gospel of Jesus Christ is that it invites man to freely repent of such self defeating, autonomous thinking, and submit their hearts and minds to Christ. When they truly believe that God has revealed himself in the Bible, then there is a basis in the Biblical absolutes for the society, and it will prevent the society from going into chaos. Also, however, there are tremendous freedoms that are granted in a Christian society. Because of the Biblical absolutes, all men are to be corrected by the scriptures, and hence, there are limits and boundaries to what anyone can do to you. Thus, there is freedom and yet form to society. When society *freely* submits to Christ and his gospel, we have both freedom and life. The gospel is nothing more than the call of Christ that "whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life" [John 8:12] and "If the Son sets you free, you are free indeed" [John 8:36]. The gospel is that only in Christ are these things found, and thus, only in Christ can you have the basis for society. I only wish that I might have permission to share your response with others, without violating your personal privacy. I feel that if the public were to know what a slave mentality those like you possess, they would not even consider accepti...ng your system of belief. What you call totalitarian (And in truth I feel that the word totalitarian is essentially meaningless. http://theredphoenixapl.org/2009/ ), I would refer to as being authoritative. What you'd call chaos, I think of as being ordered liberty. But this is what you're left with, when you reject off hand such concepts as natural law http://plato.stanford.edu/09/10/ the-myth-of-totalitarianism / entries/natural-law-ethics/ /inner law , and/or the social contract http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract . Either people are left with no ethical guidlines, with which to self govern their lives, or they become bound to some sort of arbitrary religious dictates, such as shariah. And furthermore, this illustrates why I refer to some purported Christians as being christianazis. Their Fuhrer is Jesus, their master race is the elect, and their Reich is the Kingdom of God. If this truth offends, at least it's not propoganda.See More
Dominionist-Jason, the problem is that the New Testament specifically talks about being a bondservant of Jesus Christ. That isn't terminology that I invented; it is terminology that the apostle Paul used:
Colossians 1:7 just as you learned it from E...paphras, our beloved fellow bond-servant, who is a faithful servant of Christ on our behalf,
Romans 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,
Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons:
Titus 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
Philemon 1:1 Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timothy our brother, to Philemon our beloved brother and fellow worker,
The notion of a "slave" mentality to Jesus Christ is all over the scriptures. It isn't something we invented. The problem is, you are slave too; you are a slave to your own sin, and your own autonomy. Worse than that, your own autonomy cannot allow you to see that you have no foundation for ethics at all. You speak of natural law. However, people who believe in natural law interpret natural law differently. Why should I accept your interpretation of natural law, and not someone else's? Ironically, it was the Nazis who interpreted natural law to mean that the Jews had to be exterminated. Not only that, nature is finite. Why should I accept a law based upon something that is finite and limited, and may not be universal in character? Why should I accept your social contract, and not someone else's? The problem here is the finitude of your own mind. It is an insufficient base for society. That will forever be the problem with humanism. As Schaeffer shows in that video series, *every* society that has relied upon "natural law" and "social contract" has perished.
"And furthermore, this illustrates why I refer to some purported Christians as being christianazis. Their Fuhrer is Jesus, their master race is the elect, and their Reich is the Kingdom of God. If this truth offends, at least it's not propoganda."
And yet, when you reject the kingdom of God, you are left with an inability to make sense out of ethics, an inability to make sense out of reason, and an inability to make sense out of society. You see, you have to borrow from the "Fuhrer" Jesus, the "Reich" of "The Kingdom of God" and the existence of the "master race" of "the elect" in order to even make your arguments work. Logically, the reliance upon your own finitude reduces down to nihilism, but you won't go there, and have to believe in things like universals in order to make your system work, which only make sense with the "Fuhrer" Jesus as king of kings and Lord of Lords. However, you are willing to submit your mind to the law of God in order to make your arguments work, and then deny him in your hatred for him when it is convenient for you.
The Nazis did the same thing, Jason. They gave lip service to "God," but their real ultimate authority was to themselves, and what they preceived "natural law" to be telling them through survival of the fittest. It is exactly this kind of worldview you are now presenting that led to the slaughter of millions of Jews. There are simply no absolutes in the society you are presenting, and, if someone interprets natural law to say the Jews should die, then the Jews should die. The reason why Jesus Christ has the right to be Lord is because he is God, and thus, infinite in his nature and character. He can therefore provide absolutes that are not merely finite [which is what you are left with in your system], but absolutes that come from his infinite and unchanging nature and character. Thus, it gives us a base for society. That is the difference between Hitler, your own perception of what natural law teaches, or anyone else who seeks to impose things by mere tyrranical force and the Infinite Triune God of scripture.That is why societies based upon the Triune God of scripture, although imperfect, still survive, and societies built upon the finitude of man always die. That is also why our only hope is for the Holy Spirit to remove their heart of stone, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they willingly and freely become a servant of Jesus Christ. Outside of that hope, our society is doomed. Jason Stumpner And from you we get nothing but more unfounded statements, which only serve to defame those whom differ from you. And to claim that I'm a slave to my own freedom is nothing more than nonsensical double speak. I mean seriously, if one were to read the third part of 1984, by George Orwell, it's obvious the parallels between Ingsoc's view of "Big Brother", and the people's relationship to him, and your view of God, and society. http://www.george-orwell.org/1984/ I don't know if the author was thinking of presuppositionism in writing it, but I feel that it aptly illustrtates it. I, on the other hand, am certain of what is discernably true. No matter that anyone might vainly proclaim. And the God of nature I acknowledge, and serve by emulating His personal nature, is not necessarily synonymous with the gods of any particular scripture. The Deity transcends all such vain imaginations mere mortals have devised in their respective religions.18.html

