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Posts: 5331
May 21 12 10:40 AM
bigdre45 wrote: It's good to finally find people that think for themselves and challenge what has been taught in a pursuit of the truth. So, I have a question. I have seen a few forums on here in regards to speaking in tongues. And some of what I have read so far is funny as hell. However, I would like to know what people think about the subject. And not just as a whole. There are many different facets to the doctrine, such as tongues being the evidence of the Holy Ghost, or tongues being used to build up oneself. Since I'm asking the question I guess I should start with what I believe. Students of C. F. Parham came up with the idea of initial evidence, or receiving the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues, which gave birth to the doctrine of being baptized in the Spirit. The problem I have with that is that not everyone that received the Holy Ghost in the book of Acts followed with speaking in tongues, not even Saul. In fact, I don't believe that the tongues we speak today are the tongues that was spoken then. In the book of Acts, when they spoke in tongues they spoke known languages on earth, not the "heavenly language" you hear today. There is no such thing as a heavenly language in the bible. 1st Corinthians 13:1 lays no solid basis for this teaching. Don't you find it strange when someone is speaking in tongues, uttering the same sounds the same way every time and the interpretation is always different?? Something you may also want to consider is that voodoo priests in Haiti are speaking in tongues just like we do today. 1st Corinthians 14 has been taken so far out of context it's not funny. Parts in the chapter that people view as instructions are actually rebukes. 1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. I highlighted the word "but" because it is always overlooked. But is a comparative word (not this, but that). It compares two things against each other. What's being compared? Two things: the greater gift versus the lesser gift, but just as important, the proper use versus the improper use of gifts (1st Cor 12:7). All gifts are for the benefit of the body as a whole, not the individual recipient of the gift (Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible - 1Cor 12:7). So, why are we using tongues to build ourselves? That's what they did in Corinth. But it wasn't a spiritual building. They were building their egos!Do I believe in speaking in tongues? Yes. If I'm in a service and someone started speaking Russian as God instructed him/her, you got me. But if someone says shan-day-la-la-na-nay-la-man-cy and the interpretation is there's more money in the house, people are with-holding on God, I'm out!!!
Integrity above allService before selfExcellence in all we do~United States Air Force core values.Blackdog, Administrative Schnauzer
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May 21 12 11:26 AM
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May 21 12 2:32 PM
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May 22 12 12:49 AM
Musical Mantric
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May 22 12 6:21 AM
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May 22 12 8:41 AM
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May 22 12 8:46 AM
There are some who call me .... Timmay!
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May 22 12 10:00 AM
May 22 12 10:37 AM
Elizabeth Niederer wrote:My current pastor (I'm now in a Methodist church) pointed out a very different possible interpretation of the story of Pentecost: The miracle was not in the speaking, it was in the HEARING. The people present had to HEAR in their own languages. That doesn't have to mean--if you are assuming it was a truly supernatural occurrence--that the people were speaking the languages they heard.
The Roman Virgil (70-19 BC) describes the ecstatic tongues of the Sybilline priestess on the Island of Delos as the result of her being unified with the god Apollo. Mystery religions of the Greco-Roman world record the same phenomenon in the Mithra cult of the Persians; the Osiris cult originating in ancient Egypt, and the lesser known Dionysian, Eulusinian, and Orphic cults cradled in Macedonia, Thrace and Greece. Lucian of Samosata (AD 120-98) in De Dea Syria describes an example of glossolalia shown by a roaming believer of the Syrian goddess June.
Ancient Israelites did it also. Glossolalia has also been observed in shamanism and the Voodoo religion of Haiti. Cannibals in Borneo have been known to speak in tongues too. And when spoken by schizophrenics, glossolalia is considered gibberish.
Blackdog was right about the Oracle of Delphi. I'm now looking for books on this and the Roman Virgil.
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May 22 12 12:19 PM
exPc Fan
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May 22 12 1:53 PM
stubborn envelope wrote:Speaking in tongues and other types of trances Pentecostals go into do seem to resemble Voodoo trances to me from what I've learned in college about magic, cults, and traditional African religions. I'm not really comfortable with these practices in Christianity, however. I tend to think those people in traditional African religions, including Voodoo, know how to safely exist in these altered states and they do a good job of preventing the one who is possessed from getting hurt. It isn't like that in the Pentecostal church, not in my experience. My uncle's eyes would roll up into his head, he would black out, and no one could prevent him from running into walls.The Great Awakening involved dramatic hysterics as seen in Pentecostalism and was followed by a bi polar like crash in depression among many people, and a great deal of them commited suicide. We just couldn't handle those extreme states of consciousness. We didn't have years of tradition to guide us safely through those altered states as the traditional African religions have.Sometimes I wonder if perhaps some African Americans have a better grasp on these techniques than people who are white, having a more direct connection to African customs and traditions than a bunch of white Pentecostals ever will.So that's pretty much how I feel about it. Pentecostals are dealing with altered states they aren't skilled enough to control.
"......what I've learned in college about magic, cults, and traditional African religions. "
May 23 12 12:31 AM
Fascinating, and ties in with what I've long suspected. Thanks for the info, stubborn and nitebreez.
Posts: 159
May 23 12 2:29 AM
stubborn envelope wrote:The Great Awakening involved dramatic hysterics as seen in Pentecostalism and was followed by a bi polar like crash in depression among many people, and a great deal of them commited suicide. We just couldn't handle those extreme states of consciousness. We didn't have years of tradition to guide us safely through those altered states as the traditional African religions have.
May 23 12 2:51 AM
May 23 12 7:08 AM
Candiru wrote:I don't think you see them as often as you used to, but does anyone remember the hypnotist shows that people put on at colleges and bars? They are shows where a hypnotist puts volunteers into a hypnotic state and has them do things like bark like a dog, see flowers grow out of their bellybuttons, and other comical things. , In watching a webcast from a church I formerly attended, it occurred to me that this was almost the same thing. The pastor will say a few magic words and on cue someone will start quivering and giggling. Is speaking in tongues and getting slain in the spirit just another form of hypnotism?
May 23 12 7:12 AM
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May 23 12 10:15 AM
May 23 12 10:28 AM
oppressednomore wrote:I really began to feel I was dabbling in the supernatural in a bad way and I wanted no part of it. I suppose it all boils down to whether one believe in an "evil" side or not...but I stay way away from it all now. I've not had those occurences since. Was I opening myself up to the occult..I don't know. It feel real and it felt bad!I just cam across this website. It may answer some questions you have.http://www.inplainsite.org/html/tongues_part_iii.html
May 23 12 11:35 AM
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