Particularly for those who are attending [non-charismatic obviously] church (although feel free to answer anyone) - how do you deal with the triggers of old stuff to be able to stay there?
thanks
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holly |
triggers? |
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Hey,
Particularly for those who are attending [non-charismatic obviously] church (although feel free to answer anyone) - how do you deal with the triggers of old stuff to be able to stay there? thanks |
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marla191792 |
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I still have trouble with that from time to time. Having people around who are sympathetic is helpful.
The last time for me involved a guest speaker who spoke in such a way that it set of my PTSD, and I started to shake and get freaked out. I went to a back room in the nursery where there was a couch and sat there with my fingers crammed in my ears. The pastor's wife wandered in, took one look, and quickly went out again and found the sound guy and got him to cut the sound to the nursery so that I wouldn't hear any more of the sermon. Then she came back and just sat and chatted about non-religious stuff for a while until I was calmer. It helped a lot. For some reason, I never expect people to be sympathetic. I expect them to be judgmental. But people are often more sympathetic than I expect. |
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Lutherius |
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Long hot baths and meditation. I mean, at least a half hour in the bath, and probably at least 10-15 minutes of meditation.
Actually a long hot bath at the same time as meditation helps me out a lot. Graham Ledgerwood's "Keys to Higher Consciousness" is a good place to begin, if you are interested. I think you can get the book used from Amazon.
Lutherius
"I cannot and I will not recant. Here I stand; I can do no other." Martin Luther Ex-Pentecostal Forums Lutherius' Blog (Archived Essays) Pentecostal Watchdog Society (Yahoo Allied Group) derkrash@earthlink.net (My Personal Email) |
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walkawayarchie |
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MY GOD!!! Someone who didn't insist that you listen to the sermon and insisted that the problem is YOU!!!
That is incredible that a pastor's wife would be so caring and do something so helpful!!! I'm not being cynical or anything- it's amazing to me! The ones I've known were either standoffish or preachy- ALL of them. One was even viciously abusive towards my wife. (I'm ashamed to admit that I was more concerned about my wife's anger than I was about the abuse- which I didn't really pick up on until we'd been there for a while. She was right to be angry!) That is the kindest thing I've heard of a church person doing to a walkaway- or someone who has a problem with a sermon. I used to go downstairs in the church we used to attend during the sermons. Mostly I was ignored, but a few people DID pressure me to go up and listen to the sermon (nobody offered to turn down the volume when the sermons were especially triggering). The preacher's sermons were borderline dominionist or at least "give more more more!" I was triggered last night by a show on TV. My other half wanted to watch it, so I was stuck. It was about the "Founding Fathers" and their connections to the Masons. It talked about "prophesies" and "New World Order" (I since learned that the words on the Great Seal of the US isn't "New World Order", but "New Order of the ages" or something like that.) I had some trouble sleeping because of it. Anyway, I avoid triggering situations- for instance, at my in-laws (my mother-in-law LOVES the dominionist station because it plays "old shows") I carry a portable radio and a set of headphones so I can sit in the one comfortable (for me) chair they have and not be triggered by the preach-commercials. I never watch online videos about pentecostals, even if they have proof of a lie or even proof that the preacher/speaker was advocating treason. I also never go to religious websites and have the religious channels deleted from the TV lineup. Maybe I should have used a radio last night. (GRIN!) |
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lozza |
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I get angry when confronted with a trigger and tend to keep rehashing what I've heard for days, if not weeks. At the moment, I'm quite annoyed over
two incidents that took place in a bible study. The bible study is non-Charismatic. I've been going for years and really enjoy it, but a recent member
has started pushing for Pentecostal things to happen. A couple of weeks ago, she started to pray for someone in the church. About halfway through the prayer,
she came against a spirit. I was furious listening to this and plan on saying something to the people in charge.
Then, last week, she started on me. One of the people in charge asked each member what they would like prayer for and I said I wasn't particularly needing any, but would value some about getting extra work. The woman virtually jumped on me straightaway - "have you been praying yourself? You need to come to the cross of Jesus and cry out to God. We don't mind praying, but you have to pray yourself.." I was so stunned. All the old stuff came flashing back....endless praying session, emotional exhaustion, not knowing whether I was blessed or cursed. I said something like, "Oh, well, don't bother then. I'll be fine." "No," she went on. "We don't mind praying." I've decided not to go to the group tonight as a form of protest.
Last Edited By: lozza
07/01/09 00:20:52.
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charliedog |
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MARLA! "Scary beyond all reason" LOVING IT!!!!
Lozza what you describe seems typical of Holy Trinity Brompton to me and of the sort of "intense" accusatory CRQP that used to go on. I would suggest that this woman has mental health issues or some sort of hormone problem going on...And if you don't want to deal with her, (why should you) then don't go. The leaders should have stepped in. When I've been a leader in a similar group, I have stepped in and said, "No - that's not an accurate statement, so can you re-think and re-phrase please?" If you remember Transactional Analysis Theory, you might link her communication with you as in "Parent" mode...(ie..I am older/wiser/better than you... ) We naturally reply in "child" mode to this, but to stop the power game in its tracks, reply in "Adult" mode, which is PURE LOGIC. Logic will not allow the damage to take place. Logic says, "You do not know me well enough to make that statement. I don't choose to share details of my prayer life with you."
Last Edited By: charliedog
07/01/09 00:53:07.
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CaroG87 |
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For me, I ran to a liturgical/orderly church precisely because I knew there was very little leeway for chaos there.
But there have been a couple of moments when I had a flashback of sorts and it scared the poop out of me. Once, there was a mentally ill person at Mass who had a meltdown/episode during the prayer. The caregiver was able to get her out of there, but it didn't stop me from breaking out in a cold sweat at the thought of chaos invading a holy moment. And another time, a person was standing and her knees buckled from a medical moment (blood sugar dropping). It just so happened that she had just received the sacrament of Anointing of the Sick. I could tell by the way she was crumpling that it was a medical thing and not some grand spiritual event, but that didn't stop my brother from looking at me like, "HOLY CRAP!" (The fact that she sat for the next few minutes with her head between her knees was the clue-in for me). But it was a scary moment when it all came flooding back. That's the only two times it has happened for me in 17 years. That's the kind of track record I enjoy! |
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tandc90 |
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Wow, Lozza. I would most definitely complain to the leaders. I'm sure you're not the only one uncomfortable also.
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walkawayarchie |
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Lozza- she sounds like she could be a steeplejacker. I'd go to the leader/pastor of your church and warn him or her. I'd also cue in the leader of the
group. Check out her background- I'd bet that she comes from a Pentecostal church, and I'd almost bet AoG.
People like that are like an infectious disease - they come into something that is OK, and turn the whole thing Pentecostal. I've seen that several times in the 26 years since I walked (I stopped being active in small groups in the churches we attended years ago because of steeplejacking) - yet I've never even heard of a "decent" group turning a steeplejacker around. |
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brainy |
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At my church the choir leader sometimes will have to talk about the song the choir is about ready to perform. At times she comes across as rather emotional and
appears to want others to "feel it" as well. When this happens, I usually tune her out. She one time made a joke about missing the rapture and no one
laughed. Our pastor quietly explained to her our church does not teach or believe in dispensationalism. When she made the joke I rolled my eyes and sighed.
There was also a man who used to attend who would give a holler or a loud "Amen" when something was said he agreed with. He quit coming when he realized this type of actions/behaviors are not acceptable. When he would do this everyone in the church would turn around and stare daggers at him. Sometimes, if I think about it part of me still is leery of people who tend to get caught up in the emotion and disengage their brain. |
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lozza |
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Lozza- she sounds like she could be a steeplejacker. I'd go to the leader/pastor of your church and warn him or her. I'd also cue in the leader of the group. Check out her background- I'd bet that she comes from a Pentecostal church, and I'd almost bet AoG.walkawayarchie, the person is definitely Pentecostal. This hasn't bothered me before now, but it's starting to become an issue. I still feel so wound up over what happened last week. |
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walkawayarchie |
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It's a story I've seen too often- even in the last church we attended.
There seems to be a couple of different types of steeplejackers- those who are better trained and those who are not. The better trained ones are more subtle and stay behind the scenes- quitely pushing the church towards dominionism. Then there are those who might not be as well trained*- that are rather overt about their Pentecostalism. The priest of the church we used to attend said that he had to expel between four and twelve people a year** for what is called sheep-stealing- getting people in the church to start attending Dominionist/Pentecostal services and leave the Episcopal church. He did note that they always seemed to come in pairs or multiples of two, the last time I talked with him about it. I warned him again at that time that I used to hang out with the Assemblies people who were being trained for taking over churches- and they were trained to do it in teams (and it was in multiples of two). I'd be looking for a second "quiet" Pentecostal/Dominionist, working behind the scenes to encourage your church on a move towards that steep slippery slope, as well as keeping an eye on the noisy/crazy one. In fact, knowing how poisonous they are, that person should be asked to either let go of the nonsense or leave. * I'm pretty sure that at least a couple of the "overt" Pentecostal steeplejackers in our past church were working with quiet ones- as a distraction or front. They ARE that organized, and again I stress that they are TRAINED to steeplejack. ** He was very patient with them, and tolerated their behavior for long periods of time, so you could pretty much say that there were steeplejackers "working" year-round at the parish. He only expelled people when they successfully got an Episcopalian to drop out and join the Pentecostals. The quiet influence ones were succeeding in their efforts in the church - during the time we knew him he went from being rather liberal and accepting to being very conservative, very fundamentalist in ways, and leading the move against homosexuals in the diocese. The last time I saw him, he'd invited the creationists to speak at the church. He also opened his pulpit to "students" from the local Pentecostal "Bible College" (now ersatz university) and hired them for positions in the church. They DO target the leadership for conversion to their way of thinking. |
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tandc90 |
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He only expelled people when they successfully got an Episcopalian to drop out and join the Pentecostals. Wow, that's incredibly neglectful to allow it to go that far before taking action. Aside from that, your post was frightening yet affirms what I've been suspicious of for years. |
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walkawayarchie |
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I mentioned this very thing in another thread. It's been known for some time. (In the thread about "Real rules of Pentecostalism".)
Last Edited By: walkawayarchie
07/02/09 12:23:26.
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tandc90 |
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Yeah, I saw that too. I really had no idea there was an organized effort, but that explains a lot. I recently tried to find a local church and was horrified at
how charismatic they all were, and I was looking at traditional denominations. None outright claimed to be charismatic, but we all know how to spot them.
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