Ushering in the Spirit...

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iam4hymn

Ushering in the Spirit...

Lead

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Posts: 6

(02/13/09 13:15:02)

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Ok, reasoning here...

The Pente church always talks about ushering in the Spirit or how God is here or how the Spirit is here...as if he was not there at the begining of service, right?

I was talking to a Pente preacher's wife the other day and she was talking about how "dead" the churches in Europe are and how they didn't have the Spirit. She visited a few and just never felt the presence of the Holy Spirit.

My theory is this...

-If one believes in the trinity (which most Pente churches do) then that means that God is God, the Son is God and the Spirit is God.

-Matthew 18:20 says "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." (Christ himself said this)

-I find it difficult to believe that in all European churches or even the "dead" American churches that there are not at least 2 or 3 gathered in His name during any given Church service, right?

-So to me, the problem lies with the Pentecostal in that environment, not the fact that the Spirit is not there. Because obviously God himself said in his word that He is there if there are 2 or more gathered.

-So how can Pente's possibly usher in the Spirit or God when He is already there????????????????!!

boustro

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Posts: 4324

(02/13/09 13:26:59)

There are some who call me .... Timmay!

You'll go crazy trying to make sense of the things Pentes say!

Tim

RogerDodger

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Posts: 167

(02/13/09 15:06:37)

I know one thing for sure,Pente's love using the word anointed in anything they say.....and that annoys the HELL out of me.

CaroG87

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Posts: 722

(02/13/09 18:47:23)

exPc Fan

DING DING DING!!!! IA4H, you have hit upon something there.

I grew up hearing from pastors and lay leaders alike that liturgical churches were "dead" because they followed a formula or a prayerbook, and not The Spirit................. Of course, they also thought Methodists and Presbyterians were dead but that's because they didn't run the aisles. Baptists were close but an annoyance because they could be SOOOOOO good if they just spoke in tongues. I tease, but that's pretty close.

Now that I am a member of a liturgical church, I find myself FAR more moved by the Spirit than I ever did growing up Pente. The Spirit moves my heart through a good homily, or a beautiful song, or the way a prayer is recited, or any of those things. By engaging my mind, my spirit soars and I feel much closer to God that way.

All in a supposedly "dead" church.

So yeah, in a nutshell: IT'S THEM! Not the liturgical churches!

walkawayarchie

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Posts: 65

(02/13/09 20:08:57)

Did you ever notice how their "spirit-led" services seem to fit one of about three or four patterns? That was one of the inconsistencies I picked up on early. They constantly were tearing other churches down and saying that they were following the "rules of men" because they used a prayer book (or whatever)... but I soon learned that their services were very predictable... and you could tell which pattern almost from the beginning. It actually got boring!!!

What was funny was that I realized later that there were more scripture readings in the services of the churches they considered "dead"- than they used in their own.

The "dead" churches also covered a wider range of scripture readings as well... especially if you looked at the whole year.

lozza

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Posts: 3429

(02/14/09 01:37:22)

Musical Mantric

Did you ever notice how their "spirit-led" services seem to fit one of about three or four patterns? That was one of the inconsistencies I picked up on early. They constantly were tearing other churches down and saying that they were following the "rules of men" because they used a prayer book (or whatever)... but I soon learned that their services were very predictable... and you could tell which pattern almost from the beginning. It actually got boring!!!

Yes, this is something I noticed quite early on. The charismatics were quick to look down on denominational churches for having traditions, but ended up developing traditions of their own. And, yes, it did eventually get very boring.

I've heard people say that in the 70's when the new charismatic movement was beginning to blosom, people would stamp and cheer when someone came to a meeting and announced they'd left their old church for the new restoration.

At one point, I was heavily into the stuff about a supernatural church doing miraculous things - can't believe I was really into it - and I used to look down on denominational churches. I never thought I'd end up getting confirmed in the Anglican church.

holly

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Posts: 173

(02/14/09 02:48:20)

pentespeak: 'ushering in the spirit'
translation: 'hyping everyone up into an emotional frenzy'

tandc90

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Posts: 888

(02/14/09 07:08:33)

exPc Fan

Did you ever notice how their "spirit-led" services seem to fit one of about three or four patterns?

I noticed this quickly also. Upbeat song to get you moving, medium tempo song to bring you down a bit, slow tempo song that faded away into group tongues followed by silence while waiting on the spirit. I've never been in a service that was in any way any different than that pattern. It was so predictable. Even when I was still charismatic I griped about it and commented that I didn't go to church to sing for an hour but to be taught...or fed is how I'd put it.

RobWood

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Posts: 140

(02/14/09 08:05:02)

What the pastor's wife meant by "dead" was that the people did not clap their hands, shout "Amen," raise their arms, cry, speak in tongues, prophecy or do any of the other performance-oriented behavior she's used to believing means the Holy Spirit is "moving" through the crowd.

Rob

walkawayarchie

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Posts: 69

(02/15/09 09:02:45)

I've heard people use "formal" where others have used "dead".

They're just as wrong.

timpows

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Posts: 44

(02/16/09 06:11:06)

I've know a few churches where the service would never get to the teaching/message part because "the spirit moved" during worship and the band just went on and on playing and the people went on and on dancing/jumping/etc. Usually after about 2-3 hours of this, the worship pastor would dismiss anyone who felt that they absolutely had to leave. Of course it was expected that most would stay and continue jumping around.

iam4hymn

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Posts: 12

(02/16/09 06:31:52)

Been there, done that! Ugh!

bootsiebabe

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Posts: 10932

(02/16/09 09:04:11)

Bending Light

Did you ever notice how their "spirit-led" services seem to fit one of about three or four patterns? That was one of the inconsistencies I picked up on early. They constantly were tearing other churches down and saying that they were following the "rules of men" because they used a prayer book (or whatever)... but I soon learned that their services were very predictable... and you could tell which pattern almost from the beginning.

Yes, I noticed it too... quite predictable.

"We are all enigma in the circle of life, being ever entwined with creative evolutional progress. All precious to behold for each our differences." -- M. Cheri B.

lozza

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Posts: 3434

(02/17/09 01:21:48)

Musical Mantric

Someone I knew once described services as a pantomime.

ADH2000

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Posts: 285

(02/18/09 07:28:31)

exPc Fan

Quote:

The Pente church always talks about ushering in the Spirit or how God is here or how the Spirit is here...as if he was not there at the begining of service, right?

Unquote.

That's pure nonsense, besides it's unscriptural too - where in the Bible does it say we are to "usher the Spirit of God in"??? The Bible does however state that once we believe in Him, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Those people (pentecostals) are actually dabbling in things they shouldn't be and driving themselves, as well as everyone else nuts. The Bible calls them "gainsayers" and lovers of "filthy lucre" (money), that is, they make money by preaching the gospel, but even then they can't get it right. I find them terribly one-dimensional and wish I could say their programs on TV send me off to sleep but unfortunately not - instead I find myself throwing banana peels and apple cores at them, shouting "You're talking bull****!!" and "Whaaaaa.........t??"

The TRUTH can be dealt with; but a lie cannot.

mfreeman73

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Posts: 229

(02/19/09 13:16:36)

exPc Fan

Pente/charismatics always judge whether the Spirit showed up based on how they feel. As the verse says, if 2 or 3 are gathered... notice it didn't say, "if 2 or 3 are gathered and emotions are flowing..." I got so tired of everything being based off of feelings. If I led my life and everything I do by how I felt, I'd be a mess. Which, I guess many of them are.

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