mfreeman73 wrote:Exactly.
I also think that most people who say they are looking forward to an eternity of praising are just saying it to sound spiritual. I found myself saying a lot of crap just from peer pressure to look spiritual.
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boustro |
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mfreeman73 wrote:Exactly.
Tim
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Joshuan1 |
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I wonder how this belief started. It seems to be the lazy man's way of thinking. It seems that God exists only to please us. A God with a kingdom with
buildings that serve no purpose? Where we get to sit around and praise him and be waited on hand and foot by holy, angelic waiters?
I disagree with the whole OTHER WORLD kind of teaching. It seems to make heaven and God into the biggest hedonism resort. I think that God will manifest His Kingdom HERE, on EARTH as it is in heaven. And since people don't just sit on their butts and praise God here I doubt that will be pleasing to Him when His reign begins. Maybe He will have to rule with an iron rod because people will think he is supposed to do everything FOR US with a wink of his eye??? Heaven and earth will be kingdoms, just like this one. It will be a global and galactical society where we will live and work and travel and create. We wont be sitting on our butts or being pets at His feet. Just because He is going to wipe the tears from our eyes does not mean He is going to pamper and coddle and spoil us. To me, the thought of His Lordship over this world and all worlds means that it will be without war and partiality. That artists will be free to create, that those with gifts wont be prevented by greed or poverty from using them. It doesn't mean that we will sit on our butts and sing forever. Yuck. That would suck. I think it is a troubling belief because it really takes away all of our responsibility as created beings. It also sucks because it means that there won't be any real absolution with this world. I think the thought of Jesus being the rightful ruler of earth and presiding as Lord and wiping out corruption and abuse is far more of a heaven experience and more meaningful and a show of his power as Lord than for me to sit in heaven, in a place without a war or a need for a display of authority and to praise Him. A Lord of all would want to show us just how much of a rightful ruler He really is, not sit on a throne, unnaposed for ever and ever and ever. In my view, there is much to be accounted for as our experience as humans here on earth. It wouldn't be very powerful just to hit the reset button and then put us all in heaven. It WOULD show me far more as we see every problem, disease, corrupt system forever destroyed before our very eyes. It would answer very ancient questions and forever solidify Gods worthiness to be praised. Therefore, the view of some other place and a throne room and us sitting and worshipping and partying forever isn't an idea that can hold up to much scrutiny. Just seems like the idea that fat, blue collar types invent like the song lyrics I wrote once to describe such a mentality. "Heaven will be a fairground where all the corn dogs are free."
Last Edited By: Joshuan1
01/07/09 12:48:25.
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boustro |
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Good to see ya, J1!
Tim
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Joshuan1 |
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Thanks. Good to see you too. I have been very busy. Glad to hear that your son pulled through with the whole surgery. Hopefully he will be able to enjoy life
more now.
Last Edited By: Joshuan1
01/07/09 12:47:59.
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freedsorta |
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bootsiebabe wrote:I was thinking that this is far closer to truth than most Christians want it to be, then I read where Joshuan1 wrote: Joshuan1 wrote:I would really like for someone to point out to me where the Bible says, specifically, that people will be living in heaven. |
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lozza |
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Joshuan
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mfreeman73 |
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I tend to agree with Josh's view. In Revelation, it says that there will be a new heaven and a new earth and that His city will come down to rest on the
Earth or something like that. Well, what's the point of a new earth if we're all going to be packed into this big, super, duper sanctuary praising all
the time? I think we'll live similar to the way we are now, but without all of the bad crap we have to deal with.
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Ruby Stratacaster |
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That has to be the dullest eternity of all time. If, as I've heard in church many times before, we are to worship God all day, every day in life, why would
they want to do that when they're dead? Me, I subscribe to the belief that maybe Heaven is the Big (Insert thing here) in the Sky. Me, I'd like a
divine LAN Party. Or a video arcade. Or we can do whatever we thought we couldn't do in life--like fly, and I wouldn't be afraid of heights.
Yeah, I never understood the whole Heaven as Never-Ending Church Service thing, either. Church services, at least in the church I went to, were boring and awkward.
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Neo |
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Its nice to know that others see it the same way too. I also think that heaven will be on earth, or to be more exact I think heaven and earth will become one,
there will be no distinction between them as there is now. God worked for six "days" and rested, why wouldnt we? I could handle a few hours and
thenwe went and did something else and then probably a few more hours but constant?? Whats the point???
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tandc90 |
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Yeah, I too believe the new heaven/new earth/heaven on earth version. When I talk about being "in heaven" that's really what I'm referring
to.
I spent a lot of my time in church doodling on scraps of paper so surely it'll be more exciting than that. |
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Joshuan1 |
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I remember one of my wilderness times where I lived at a church (quite literally for several months) and I remember being able to be at the altar praying for
hours and hours and hours and hours. I do mean hours and hours and hours. The odd thing was that I got the sense that it wasn't as pleasing to God as I
thought it would be. I actually ended up feeling like I was sitting on my butt doing nothing, that intense prayer isn't really the world shaking thing we
think it is. That it was like I was doing nothing. Wasting my valuable time. So I began to write instead and I immediately felt like God was pleased with me
using my gifts.
I think heaven and our lives during His reign here will be a productive time, and spent being a part of a working kingdom. I think we will be doing work and writing and singing and drawing and painting. I think we will use our gifts in some thrilling, amazing ways. I think THAT will be far greater worship to God than singing a song or praising for all eternity. I think the whole 1000 year reign will be an amazing time. A time where justice is brought in. Where we see the racial divides and the class divides removed before our eyes. Where rich and poor become things of the past. It will be a reign and that means that there will be things to be done and rules to be enacted, decrees to be established. I think it will be an amazing time to be an artist and I think we will be able to come and display our gifts before Him. But really, we are not pets and I don't think God enjoys people being idle. And sometimes worship is more about us than it is about pleasing God. After all, the Bible lays out what God finds pleasing and it isn't really singing or worship but rather when the poor and destitute are taken care of. When widows are looked after. Would anyone here want to hear Happy Birthday to you for all eternity? I think not. Well the thought of us singing it to God must be just as creepy to Him. I think that the church can't imagine His reign because it too often isn't about Him, it is about people pleasing themselves. A never ending New Years party. Personally, I find the idea of a literal, physical reign of Jesus to be very incredible. I can't wait to watch Him overturn the corruption of the church, debase the proud and right every wrong. That isn't a party, that is justice. I don't want to move to some other perfect place. I want to see Him reigning here, taking this messed up place and setting it straight. I want the invalids and the abused to be given a voice, a chance at living. That is way better than being in a room that has never known war or lack and singing forever. Just pushing a reset button wouldn't be so heroic or Godlike. It would be a slap in the face of those who have sacrificed themselves for others. The idea of a thousand year reign here shows me that right here, where we live that God's justice and leadership and compassion will be felt. Not in some other place. |
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lozza |
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Excellent stuff, Joshuan. I more or less feel the same. I don't want heaven up in the sky singing praise, I want life down here on this earth doing what I enjoy, being challenged. I also agree with the point about praying for hours not being pleasing to God - I have often felt that it is wrong. (Tried it myself once with some pretty awful repercussions.) |
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PepperMintPaty |
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lozza:
I also agree with the point about praying for hours not being pleasing to God - I have often felt that it is wrong. (Tried it myself once with some pretty awful repercussions.) Repetitive prayer for hours upon hours stating your wants, desires, needs over & over & over & over & over & over..........................................................always reminded me of a little child nagging their parent with; can I, can I, can I, can I,............ I want that, I want that, I want that,.............the monotone voice that they use drives parents absolutely bonkers. I've heard that same monotone whiny voice only the adult version in prayer rooms, out in the pews. |
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SilentKnight12 |
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Is it just me, or does the thought of Jesus being crucified just so that God the Father could have a heavenly chorus strike anyone else as being an utterly
insane proposition?
Think about it. Forget the rest of it, would you really want to spend eternity with a being who is that psychotic? I believe God has far better things in mind for us than that.
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures Chuck Norris allows to live.
Last Edited By: SilentKnight12
01/13/09 07:06:55.
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Taco Fred |
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I never could understand the concept of the praising God, Jezus, the Holy Spook, and whomever else may be waiting to be praised in heaven for eternity. You
would think things would get boring after a couple of days.
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