Ex-charismatic rant

RSS
Email

0 Kudo

Author	Comment
RogerDodger	Ex-charismatic rant	Lead	[-]
Posts: 126 (12/24/08 12:54:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Has anyone read this guys rant? http://www.kurthutchison.com/confessions.html I cracked up.Someone in this group mentioned the word"shandala".It's THERE ! Right towards the end of the rant.I read the entire story .Afterwards,I felt like going out and clubbing baby seals to death.Does anyone hear feel like they had a similar experience?I could identify with parts of it,but this guy sounds like he went off the deep end.
RobWood		#1	[-]
Posts: 62 (12/25/08 00:43:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It took a while to read the whole thing, and I'm not 100% convinced of his honesty throughout, but I have to confess that I was as deeply into it as he was. My wife and I lived the life like a couple of addicts, morning, noon and night. Every waking moment was spent in talking to God (internal dialogue), reading the Bible, praying, attending (or hosting) Bible studies, prayer meetings, attending every church function, and running a teen outreach ministry coffee house in the town where we lived. I was a Royal Rangers Leader (the Assembly of God version of the Boy Scouts), played guitar for church services, and went to every revival and tent meeting in our area. I don't think the guy went off the "deep end," though - at least, not any more off the deep end than the committed Pentecostal "lay" person. He's a prime example of what's wrong with the entire Pentecostal/Charismatic approach to spirituality. It's all about experiences, and all about "acting" spiritual, instead of just being a person who happens to believe in God and salvation. He confuses lessons that life itself teaches you (if you will bother to pay attention), with God teaching him those lessons. I absolutely agree with him that people who are attracted to the "power" aspects of Pentecostalism are people who grew up without any, and that often translates to people who have been abused as children. I think a lot of us who jumped headlong into Pentecostalism as adults were, in retrospect, engaging in a sort of self-guided therapy that, unfortunately, often involved causing harm to others by abusing them, but hiding behind "righteousness" to do it. I personally deeply regret the harm I caused others, in the name of Jesus. It would have been so much more honest to have gone into actual therapy, instead. Check out what he says at the end of it, when he sums up what he's learned: One conclusion I wish to offer from my journey is that I have observed that the word-of-faith and Charismatic teachings tend to strongly appeal to people who are broken on the inside, those who suffered difficult childhoods, or for whatever reasons are desperately seeking something to make themselves feel better about themselves or to give their lives meaning. But rather than truly helping their condition, it puffs them up with a narcotic-like high with promises of power and glory. And like a narcotic, it makes them feel better for a while, but it needs constant fresh new experiences to sustain that high, just like a drug addiction. The lows are just as bad as a drug addict too, because lack of a fresh experience means that God has left you, or has lost interest, or that you aren't having enough faith, any of which are terrifying things (and therefore mimic withdrawal symptoms). I said that charismania kicks you when you are down, it actually cons you into kicking yourself when you are down and makes you your own worst enemy. The search for fresh new "miraculous" experiences causes people to engage in all sorts of self-destructive behaviors, because notice that the fresh experiences have to be earned by acts of faith. The terrible earn your miracle by works mentality guarantees they will wind up hurting themselves and the people around them. It also encourages people to go way out on a limb (stepping out in faith), the farther out you go the better. This has resulted in lots of emotional trauma and even physical injuries and death. There are more documented cases of children dying in so-called Christian denominations from denying medical care to their children, believing God would heal them, than there are in the so-called cults who deny blood transfusions as part of their doctrine. I have heard testimonies of teenagers drowning because they tried to walk on water to escape a flood. Rob
boustro		#2	[-]
Posts: 4177 (12/25/08 15:25:58) There are some who call me .... Timmay! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'll read it what I get some time. Tim
RogerDodger		#3	[-]
Posts: 127 (12/25/08 20:02:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Rob, I am not trying to pry into your personal life,but just exactly what do you think is proper behavior in the charismatic movement?.I ask that because my brother and his wife are pastoring a church that he started.I can't stand to be around either one of them at any time.They are truly good people,but when I hear them say words like demons,supernatural and prophetic,I want to throw my hands up in the air and run out of the room screaming.The word "anointed" just drives me up the friggin' wall. Am I being too sensitive?
RobWood		#4	[-]
Posts: 64 (12/26/08 11:27:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	RogerDodger wrote: Rob, I am not trying to pry into your personal life,but just exactly what do you think is proper behavior in the charismatic movement?.I ask that because my brother and his wife are pastoring a church that he started.I can't stand to be around either one of them at any time.They are truly good people,but when I hear them say words like demons,supernatural and prophetic,I want to throw my hands up in the air and run out of the room screaming.The word "anointed" just drives me up the friggin' wall. Am I being too sensitive? Hi Roger, I'm not too sure I understand your question, exactly, but I can speak generally about the subject. And no, I don't think you're being too sensitive. What happens to people who obsess on any activity or belief system is that the vocabulary unique to the subject naturally begins to invade their communications with one another. That's a given. When used with each other, those words and phrases tend to serve as conversational shortcuts that expedite the exchange of information, because there's an implied contract between them that they share the same beliefs, and agree on the parameters of the particular mission they might be on (in this case, pastoring a church that your brother started). But there's a problem when those subject-specific code words, terms and phrases creep into conversations involving people who don't share the obsession, whether they're active participants in the discussion or not. At the very least, it's just plain rude to bombard "civilians" with your own "special vocabulary," and more often than not, it's just a habit. But it crosses the line from the merely annoying to a type of assault, when it's deliberate, which is often the case with politics and religion. Words can be powerful things. I have a friend who, many years into our friendship, became a fundamentalist Christian. He reads his Bible morning, noon and night, and lives alone. Bible verses began to creep into our everyday conversations, to the point where his vocabulary - and his unique way of stringing words together to form sentences - began to be replaced with Bible verses he had read so many times he had committed them to memory. One day I had had enough of this, and I confronted him about it. The problem, as I explained it to my friend, is that certain assumptions were insinuating themselves into our communication - assumptions he was making about life, the world, and the universe, that I simply did not share, and that he was imposing his personal belief system on me by the words he used in ordinary conversation. I explained that if he wanted to remain my friend, he would stop hitting me in the face with his religion. He was taken aback by this, as he had no idea he was doing it. It took a couple of fairly lengthy discussions to get it sorted out, but he was able to work his way through it, and now his vocabulary is appropriate to the situation, and subject at hand. The key was that he had to accept my position that what he believes to be unimpeachably true is only true for him - and not for me. This was a tough concept for him to accept, since it's contrary to the Fundamentalist point of view, but out of friendship, he at least stopped acting as though his beliefs were tantamount to laws of the universe - even if he still feels that way. That brings us back to your brother and sister-in-law. Have you tried sharing how you feel with them? You said they're good people. If they are, they will understand and respond positively if you explain it the way I explained it to my friend. What do you have to lose? Try it, and see what they say. I'd love to be a fly on the wall during that conversation! If, after you share with them how important it is to you, they can't or won't modify their behavior around you, then you really only have two choices left: Put up with it, or distance yourself from them. I'm a great believer in honesty, though - I think it's underrated. Rob Last Edited By: RobWood 12/26/08 16:36:39. Edited 4 times.
RogerDodger		#5	[-]
Posts: 128 (12/26/08 16:38:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Rob, Oh, I have tried.He's the problem,my brother has always allowed his wife to have the say-so in things.She feels that she needs to be "bold" in her approach to others about religious matters.In other words,she respects NO boundaries that others ask her not to cross.Other boundaries are trumped by her love for Jesus are are made to be run-through with boldness.Now do you understand why I keep my distance. I wish I could find her a shirt that says," I Am A Pain-In-The-Ass for Jesus,And Whatever I Say is OK with Him. Roger
scribe2007		#6	[-]
Posts: 1147 (12/26/08 17:19:20) exPc Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I read the guy's story...Unfortunately, I could relate to a lot of it. Sigh... RogerDodger wrote: She feels that she needs to be "bold" in her approach to others about religious matters.In other words,she respects NO boundaries that others ask her not to cross.Other boundaries are trumped by her love for Jesus are are made to be run-through with boldness. RogerDodger, that is sad. No wonder you are frustrated!! Cruelty I believe is just one of the dark fruits of pentecostalism. - PepperMintPaty Last Edited By: scribe2007 12/26/08 17:22:03. Edited 1 times.
RobWood		#7	[-]
Posts: 67 (12/26/08 18:04:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	RogerDodger wrote: Rob, Oh, I have tried.He's the problem,my brother has always allowed his wife to have the say-so in things.She feels that she needs to be "bold" in her approach to others about religious matters.In other words,she respects NO boundaries that others ask her not to cross.Other boundaries are trumped by her love for Jesus are are made to be run-through with boldness.Now do you understand why I keep my distance. I wish I could find her a shirt that says," I Am A Pain-In-The-Ass for Jesus,And Whatever I Say is OK with Him. Roger Hi Roger, I get that, but have you tried to negotiate? What I mean by that is this: every relationship is negotiable. We can't even have a relationship without it. Most of the time, it's not a conscious negotiation, and if things don't work out, we go our separate ways. In the case of family, we don't have that option - or we do, but it's a pretty draconian step to walk away. Families are precious, and I truly believe there's a way for good people to negotiate how family members treat one another. Your brother has to understand what he's giving up, too, because of his wife's out-of-control behavior. And by the way, just using Pentecostal and Charismatic teachings as a bargaining chip, your brother is supposed to be the spiritual head of the household, right? By surrendering that authority to her, he's breaking the doctrine of his own faith. My advice is to keep looking for an opening, and don't give up. Rob
lozza		#8	[-]
Posts: 3305 (12/27/08 01:18:02) Musical Mantric Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm in the process of reading now. "My initial focus as a Christian was on obtaining God's blessings. It rapidly transformed into a desire for spiritual power however." This describes my own reasons for becoming involved in the word of faith, charismatic and latter rain movements.
blackdog		#9	[-]
Posts: 485 (12/27/08 08:50:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	lozza wrote: I'm in the process of reading now. "My initial focus as a Christian was on obtaining God's blessings. It rapidly transformed into a desire for spiritual power however." This describes my own reasons for becoming involved in the word of faith, charismatic and latter rain movements. I would say it eventually becomes a desire for power, period. Power over people, power over spiritual things, power over things that no person really can have power over...power for the sake of having power. The big thing really seems to be power to make others do what the pentes want, though. As for blessings, all the blessings Pentes seem to want are physical things...good health, material things, status, wealth. I guess I always thought spirituality was about things money couldn't buy, that you couldn't see and had to have a bit of faith in, but which might help you find enlightenment or peace in this life or the next. I seem to remember Jesus having a lot to say about material things and temporal power, something about selling it all, giving the money away, and following him? You can't take it with you? Maybe a few things like that? I guess some people would rather have those thirty silver coins.
DiamondGirllovesHarleys		#10	[-]
Posts: 719 (12/27/08 09:12:57) exPc Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	But rather than truly helping their condition, it puffs them up with a narcotic-like high with promises of power and glory. And like a narcotic, it makes them feel better for a while, but it needs constant fresh new experiences to sustain that high, just like a drug addiction. The lows are just as bad as a drug addict too, because lack of a fresh experience means that God has left you, or has lost interest, or that you aren't having enough faith, any of which are terrifying things (and therefore mimic withdrawal symptoms). I said that charismania kicks you when you are down, it actually cons you into kicking yourself when you are down and makes you your own worst enemy. I have truly been here on this one. When I needed help after all the trauma in my life all I got was you need more faith in God. Many many times I was told my faith wasn't strong enough that I needed to keep pressing in. That God wanted to help me but I was depending on man too much. How awful to tell a person whose husband had died that they wouldn't miss them if they had more faith? Hello from http://www.thehauntedcastle.yuku.com
RobWood		#11	[-]
Posts: 68 (12/27/08 09:23:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	blackdog wrote: I would say it eventually becomes a desire for power, period. Power over people, power over spiritual things, power over things that no person really can have power over...power for the sake of having power. The big thing really seems to be power to make others do what the pentes want, though. As for blessings, all the blessings Pentes seem to want are physical things...good health, material things, status, wealth. I guess I always thought spirituality was about things money couldn't buy, that you couldn't see and had to have a bit of faith in, but which might help you find enlightenment or peace in this life or the next. I seem to remember Jesus having a lot to say about material things and temporal power, something about selling it all, giving the money away, and following him? You can't take it with you? Maybe a few things like that? I guess some people would rather have those thirty silver coins. I think you're right about that, but I think a lot of people who are in it for the power are in it because they have never had any power, of any kind, over their own lives. I, too, was told I was especially chosen of God to do mighty works. I'm guessing that's a pretty common tool that's used to massage people's egos, right from the beginning. So, people go from broken and powerless (and often penniless) to being a mighty warrior, working for the King, who will (supposedly) pay them handsomely. I also think that the material things are often simply seen as proof that your walk is real, since God will bless and take care of his devoted children. Unfortunately, the opposite is also true: If you are struggling financially, you are struggling with God, and if you suddenly find yourself out of a job, and can't pay your bills, it means you have fallen completely out of God's grace. Rob
blackdog		#12	[-]
Posts: 486 (12/27/08 10:41:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	RobWood wrote: I think you're right about that, but I think a lot of people who are in it for the power are in it because they have never had any power, of any kind, over their own lives. I, too, was told I was especially chosen of God to do mighty works. I'm guessing that's a pretty common tool that's used to massage people's egos, right from the beginning. So, people go from broken and powerless (and often penniless) to being a mighty warrior, working for the King, who will (supposedly) pay them handsomely. Eh, not sure if this is everybody's experience, but I've known quite a few Pentes who would probably do alright if they would take some measures to improve themselves, get an education, learn to stand on their own two feet, etc. but a lot of them seem to prefer to ignore any such advice.
CaroG87		#13	[-]
Posts: 690 (12/27/08 10:50:01) exPc Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Very true, Blackdog. But then again, those are all tools of the devil -- self-sufficiency is evil, because it is not relying on God only. Geez, guess that's another reason I didn't fit in; my life motto is "Never mind, I'll do it myself, that way I know it's done right!"
blackdog		#14	[-]
Posts: 487 (12/27/08 22:26:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	CaroG87 wrote: Very true, Blackdog. But then again, those are all tools of the devil -- self-sufficiency is evil, because it is not relying on God only. Geez, guess that's another reason I didn't fit in; my life motto is "Never mind, I'll do it myself, that way I know it's done right!" Ack, ack ack ack. I can't tell you how many times I heard "God will provide" or some other such BS from my ex...and other people. I can't tell you because if I tried counting 'em all I'd go insane. It's like some of them think God pays the bills, or that money will just fall out the sky or something. The worst part of it is, at least one of the times I heard that, it was around my birthday. We were pretty broke, due to my ex's spending habits, and I got a check in the mail from my grandma. My ex got this big smile on her face and said "See, I told you God would provide" I looked right at her and told her no, my grandma sends me money for my birthday and Christmas every year, and God didn't have anything to do with it. She didn't get any of that money either, I bought cigarettes, paid the electric bill, put gas in my truck, and spent the rest on what I wanted...A book...I think it was The Mark, one of the Left Behind series books...and the Jane's USAF flight simulator PC game. Better yet, I didn't let her have first crack at the book. She was mad. Even then, I thought, Good. Just a minor annoyance, but I gotta ask: Does every little good thing have to have some divine agency attached to it?
scribe2007		#15	[-]
Posts: 1148 (12/27/08 23:36:43) exPc Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	blackdog wrote: Just a minor annoyance, but I gotta ask: Does every little good thing have to have some divine agency attached to it? Yep. DiamondGirl wrote: Many many times I was told my faith wasn't strong enough that I needed to keep pressing in. That God wanted to help me but I was depending on man too much. How awful to tell a person whose husband had died that they wouldn't miss them if they had more faith? That is really terrible, DiamondGirl! Cruelty I believe is just one of the dark fruits of pentecostalism. - PepperMintPaty
blackdog		#16	[-]
Posts: 489 (12/28/08 05:59:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	scribe2007 wrote: blackdog wrote: Just a minor annoyance, but I gotta ask: Does every little good thing have to have some divine agency attached to it? Yep. Okay, that's stupid, especially when it is a known fact that at X time of year, someone sends you money. Do they think Jesus gives them the Christmas presents too?
hermeneutic of suspicion		#17	[-]
Posts: 39 (12/30/08 03:42:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Didn't you know Jesus is Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and your grandma all crossed with a vending machine. U put the right coins in you get anything u want better than your heathen neighbours. LOL I am always getting into trouble with religious people for laughing at their "holy vending machine" attitude to God.
blackdog		#18	[-]
Posts: 498 (12/30/08 08:00:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Heh, nevermind that it's probably the most accurate description of their attitude that I've ever heard. You'd think they'd look at themselves, and realize they're trying to treat GOD like he serves them, and not the other way around... and maybe revise their views...but then I notice how self-helpish evangelicalism can be...and how just plain selfish Pentecostalism is. Seriously, if somebody could find a way to tell people like that that they are god, or like god, and buy off the anti-cult crowd and the apologetics people... They'd be an instant millionaire.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

Ex-charismatic rant

Ex-charismatic rant

Quick Reply