I am extremely stressed out about my daughter's religious issues. I haven't been a religious role model so I was very happy that she started going to church with a friend. I thought it was an odd church but I was happy she was into that and not into drugs. Yes it's pentecostal. They are very controlling and have her feeling as though she is required to give plenty of money to the church. The pastors are fairly well off and as far as I can tell, most of the members aren't. Now she is 18 and going to college. She is doing well so far in school but all other free time belongs to the church. So much so that she doesn't get around to common courtesies or honoring family commitments. I had to nag her a lot to send a thank you note for a very generous graduation present from my sister, her aunt. She graduated in June and just sent it last week (in November, probably just a lame gesture at that point) after several reminders from me...just one example. She lives with her mom and seems to not care if she ever sees me. We were friends before and I haven't done anything except nag a little, as dads do. Anyway, I bought her a car last summer so she could get to and from college. She seemed appreciative and said she would get a part-time job to cover insurance and gas. I've had a huge insurance bill for the last few months because of her and don't see her getting a job yet. I am not blaming but I did ask her to do some chores to help make my life easier in the interim and she promised to. She started to, but now she's blowing it off. I could even handle that if she would talk to me about it but if I don't go out of my way to call her, I don't ever have any contact with her. She is a nice girl but she gets defensive when I bring things up about the church. I still haven't told her everything I think about it...that I think her pastor is a fraud. That's my impression. Anyway, I think I will just sign the car over to her and make her fend for herself with the car expenses. Her insurance will go way up once it's off of my name. I will still help some if she asks but she will have to physically ask for help. It hurts me to even think to do that because it might force her hand between me and the church. I think I will lose but more and more, I feel like I can't just do nothing. I'm feeling very much taken for granted. The church is getting all of her quality time and I'm paying her bills and never even seeing her. I might as well be giving the money to them. The bigger picture is that she's losing her sense of priority and not meshing with the real world. Do you think it's the right move to start cutting her off? I might lose her but maybe I already have. Thank you.
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I'm losing my daughter
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 gman |
I'm losing my daughter |
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Posts: 1 (11/22/08 21:05:34) |
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scribe2007 |
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Posts: 1096 (11/23/08 01:28:14) exPc Fan |
 gman...
I am really sorry to hear about your daughter. gman wrote: The church is getting all of her quality time and I'm paying her bills and never even seeing her. It's a trick of the Pentecostal church to demand more and more time and money from people, while encouraging them to cut off from non-Pentecostal family. IMO Pentecostal churches are a bit like a drug. They offer an emotional high which is addictive, and they get into your system and do a lot of long-term damage. Not to mention being very hard to break away from. The other thing about Pentecostalism is that if you are "serving God" (in ministry within the church, or in mission), they tell you you can expect money to fall from the sky. And not just money - anything you need! So, any generous gift such as you mentioned above is seen as being almost solely from God. The view is that God has moved the heart of the giver to give you a gift. I fell into this way of thinking, and I have to say, it ruined me financially, and was a drain on those around me that I'm so ashamed of now. You come to expect that people (as God's instruments) will supply payment for your 'work' for God. It's called "living by faith." Needless to say, this is a total fallacy! It only teaches you irresponsibility. I can't advise you as to what to do, not being a parent...but I really hope your daughter realises the dangers of Pentecostalism. I'm sure other people on here will have constructive suggestions...
Cruelty I believe is just one of the dark fruits of pentecostalism. - PepperMintPaty
Last Edited By: scribe2007
11/23/08 01:31:01.
Edited 1 times.
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lozza |
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Posts: 3237 (11/23/08 03:12:13) Musical Mantric |
Do you think it's the right move to start cutting her off? I might lose her but maybe I already have. Thank you.Hi gman, What a difficult situation. First, your daughter is still very young and may quickly come to realise that the church is not for her. Personally, I think the best thing you could do is support her (not financially) as much as possible. |
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gman |
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Posts: 2 (11/23/08 05:37:20) |
Thank you for the replies. I'm glad I stumbled across this site and it is a little helpful just to check if my thinking is valid. Wow, the money falling
out of the sky concept...that sounds like what they must think. Of course, the pastors had a new hummer fall out of the sky...lucky it didn't land on
anyone :-)
Scribe2007, it sounds like you are holding yourself accountable for past mistakes which is something I wish more people would do. Although you may not be able to recoup some old losses, don't be ashamed. Be proud that you found the strength and wisdom to move on and pick up the pieces and that you accept responsibility for your successes and failures. I really respect that. And I appreciate the insights.... |
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Lutherius |
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Posts: 3625 (11/23/08 06:47:42) Happy Reprobate |
gman,
One thing you must understand is that Pentecostals are completely immoral when it comes to money. This is a shocking statement, but you must understand the depths of corruption in this type of church. Pastors generally DEMAND 10% of one's income at a minimum, and generally call for "offerings" on top of this 10%. Think about that for a while, and you will be outraged at where your money is going. As someone supporting her, you have the absolute right to demand that NONE of this money go to this deviant church. She has no right to give the money that you give her to go to a bottomless pit of an insane place like such a church. You now have your eyes open at the purchase of a Hummer by the pastor. This is completely outrageous for someone in a ministry profession to have need for a Hummer. Maybe if you are a backcountry farmer, but most farmers use large dooleys or large pickup trucks, and not Hummers. Thus, this purchase indicates a complete disregard for financial morality and responsibility. You have the right to bring up all these issues to her and DEMAND answers as you are the benefactor. You have a right to demand a statement as to where all expenses are going. I suggest that before you cut off contact is to demand a complete financial statement from her regarding the money you are giving her. Demand to see a monthly statement. This will trigger many reactions, and you will know after you demand this, more of where to take the issue forward. You need to get a copy of my booklet, "Letters from an Ex-Pentecostal." Send me an email, and I will send you the PDF booklet so you can understand what is behind all of this nonsense. You will have to be firm and brave. Good luck.
Lutherius
"I cannot and I will not recant. Here I stand; I can do no other." Martin Luther Ex-Pentecostal Forums Lutherius' Blog (Archived Essays) Pentecostal Watchdog Society (Yahoo Allied Group) derkrash@earthlink.net (My Personal Email) |
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gman |
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Posts: 3 (11/23/08 12:38:02) |
Thank you Lutherius,
I am going to talk to her about it. I am not literally giving money to her that she's giving to the church. She is just breaking promises to me to get a part time job and help with the costs of her car (which I bought for her). Her insurance is expensive because of her age but having it on my policy discounts it some. My issue is she doesn't have a lot of time to look for a job or keep promises to me but she has all the time in the world to deliver flyers, etc for the church (whatever they ask, any time). I'm paying bills she promised to pay. It's not so much the money as it is the disregard for promises and commitments. What I meant by I might as well give the money to the church, is I'm paying her bills and they get to enjoy her company and reap any benefits of her work. I almost never see her. I know where my money is going. I just don't know all of where her time is going. Yes I need to confront this but I need to have a strategy. I want to make sure she knows I'm here when things fall apart and leave the door open for her...let her make her own mistakes. Thanks again. |
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tandc90 |
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Posts: 705 (11/23/08 16:01:41) exPc Fan |
Something that may help you is to look up information on cults. The pentecostal religion is very cult-like, and I think you'll find a lot of help in that
direction.
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scribe2007 |
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Posts: 1102 (11/24/08 14:33:51) exPc Fan |
Thanks for your response, gman.
gman wrote:
And that new Hummer that fell out of the sky for that pastor - it was probably paid for by lots of the congregation who could ill afford it themselves, who
were probably behind in paying their bills or even rent, but still had to tithe 10% and then some, like Luth said. The tithing is crucial - it's not seen
as going to buy a Hummer so much as "supporting God's anointed" to be the spiritual leader. So it ends up that whatever the pastor wants, he gets
- yet he is often quite happy to tell those in financial distress that they "just need more faith"!
Cruelty I believe is just one of the dark fruits of pentecostalism. - PepperMintPaty
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Conservatarian |
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Posts: 821 (11/29/08 15:17:20) exPc Fan |
I think that you should love her un-conditionaly, and keep lines of communication open. If she thinks that you are dissing her because of her religion, it
might reinforce what she's been told about the "World". That we non-pentecostals hate them, and want to persecute them for there beliefs. So just
let her know that you still love her. This does not mean of course that you must still support her financialy. She's old enough to take care of herself,
and to bear the consequences of her descisions.
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marla191792 |
Re: I'm losing my daughter | ||
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Posts: 1909 (11/30/08 14:47:45) Grace Abounds |
I think it's a great idea to sign the car over to her and let her deal with the expenses. The thing about Pentecostalism is that people who are addicted
to it will only reject it when they are faced with compelling evidence that it is failing. Until they are forced to confront that reality, then it is hard for
them to see it as 'failing'. For now, she is very comfortable--Dad is paying her bills, so no money problems for her. People may even tell her (as
some have pointed out here) that God is providing. She may even be actively encouraged NOT to get a job, if her service at the church is valuable to them.
Being forced to get a job in order to keep her car would accomplish two things: (1) forcing her to realize that money does not, in fact, fall out of the sky, no matter what the Pentecostals tell her and (2) if she does get a job, it will force her to be around non-Pentecostal people (at work) more and spending less time at the church. There is no guarantee that this will be successful in drawing her out of the church, but it may, in the long run. My advice would be to not so much attack the church directly (that will only make her defensive and get her applause at the church as someone who believes despite family persecution), but actually to attack her slipping values. Remind her that she promised to try to get a job, and ask her whether she thinks it's ok with God that she lied. Remind her that the Bible says to honor her parents and ask why she is not honoring her promise to her father. She is young, of course, and there are many teens lazy about getting jobs and having not much real grasp about the cost of insurance and expenses. But I think it would be good to call her on the fact that the church, which is supposed to encourage her to be a virtuous person, is actually discouraging her from doing the right thing. Maybe remind her that the right thing is many times hard to do (getting a job when you'd rather be out with your friends at church) but that she is being a 'bad witness' to those around her (including you) by not keeping her commitments and her promises and by forcing you to pay her expenses. Being forced to confront these contradictions, I think, is often key to showing someone that they are following a bad path. It's not a guarantee to make her see the light, but in the long run, it may help her begin to doubt that Pentecostalism really is the Truth. |
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gman |
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Posts: 4 (12/02/08 15:03:42) |
Thanks to all. A lot of great perspectives. I spoke with my daughter and told her I will pay one more month and then sign the car over to her. I told her
that she needs to deal with the consequences of her decisions but kept it vague and didn't directly refer to the church. I know she can probably figure
out what specific decisions I disagree with anyway. It was a good talk. I think she gets it and I feel a little better. I have faith now that reality will
eventually prevail. Thanks again
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lozza |
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Posts: 3258 (12/04/08 01:30:08) Musical Mantric |
Sounds like a good decision, gman.
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