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whyicantbelieve |
breaking it off with pentecostal parents ? anyone else been there ? |
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I just wanted to ask if anyone here has had to break it off completely their relationship with their pentecostal parents, and if you have can someone
please tell me it gets better. All my life my parents have been abusive and just plain unconcerned about me. I was always just a "doll" for
them to parade around, I think I was supposed to add some extra qualification to the "pastor" job title. I spent years desperately trying to earn
their love/be what they wanted but I have finally realized that it's not going to work and the only way I can possibly end their abusiveness (since they
think they are entitled to be this way!) is to end the relationship. But.. it hurts so much losing them.. I was just wondering if anyone on here has been
through anything similar. A lot of the stuff that I went through with my parents/and their view of the world that contributes to the abusiveness and disregard
for my feelings seems to stem from pentecostalism.. and it seems to me that in pentecostalism.. a lot of intrusive behaviour into your children/even adult
children's lives is seen as very "normal/permissible" and given an amount of approval in a way that it isn't in other christian traditions. I
guess I am just hurting a lot of what I am going through, recognizing that I have to end it with them because of the abuse and I am just wondering if anyone
else has gone through the same .. and well survived to tell the story.
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lozza |
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Hi whyicantbelieve,
I can identify with what you wrote, except my parents are Jewish rather than Pentecostal. However, the same type of emotional abuse exists, particularly from my mother. I, too, feel guilt over not responding to her messages/texts, but I keep reminding myself that maintaining my health is crucial and I have to protect it and it's impossible to stay healthy when someone won't stop making subtle or not so subtle emotional demands. By all means, try to keep the relationship with your parents open, but if they continue in their behaviour, you may have no option but to break contact for a while. This is particularly tough, but you have to look after yourself. See subject I posted: http://expentecostalforum...ge-family-row.html?page=1 |
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Stargv |
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whyicantbelieve, I can't give you advice as to how to break it off completely because I am about in the same situation as you except with also alot of mind
playing games going on. If they (my family) suspect or feel im distancing myself more and more from them, then they start putting the gag me sugar sweet act
on to try and reel me back in, and stupid me usually falls for it because I have always wanted their love and acceptance so bad. I have had to realize
though (although I am still trying to figure out how to deal with the grief of it all) that they will NEVER love me unconditionally and they will NEVER accept
me for who I really am. I need to break it off , I don't exactly know what I am waiting for or what I am scared of, feeling like an orphan I guess.
Although I don't know why I should be scared of that, all they give me is grief/misery/abuse anyhow. I feel for you and I hope you figure out what and how
you need to break away from your parents and I hope it helps you to know your not alone in this kind of situation. And also Lozza brought up a good
point about maintaining his health, I have realized that they make me sick in my thinking with all their "end times" and "devil/satan" @%*@
talk, ect. So if i want to be well in my thinking that is another reason to stay away!
No one knows the way I feel, a part of me I have to fight
Buried somewhere deep beneath my skin The emptiness in me is faded And I can see my life is waiting Now I know I'm living for who I am-Smile Empty Soul
Last Edited By: Stargv
11/20/08 18:43:14.
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Looking4truth |
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I have had to just about break it off completely with my parents. I tried very hard to maintain a relationship despite our huge differences, but everytime I
extended a friendly hand they took advantage of it and tried to convert my child under my nose. After a few attempts I finally realized that they were not
going to change. So, now our relationship is very strained...there isn't much of one. I let them in when I feel like it...and by "in"...I mean
simply saying two words to them. I will never be open with them again. It's sad that it has to be this way, but they have not given me any choice in the
matter.
It will be even more distant when I transfer universities next fall...about a thousand miles away. Pentecostals do not know boundaries. They won't allow you set boundaries. With them it is either they control you or there isn't a relationship at all. I can already picture the day when I'm standing by their graves upset about how things had to be in order for me and my child to be sane and happy. It's going to be tough.
Pascal wus clever kitteh hu wus laik: "I am not knoin if teh Ceiling Cat is reel." Oh noes! But
Pascal was thinkin an thinkin, an he wus laik "If I is beleefin in teh Ceiling Cat, and he is reel, I will be gettin cheezburger. But if I has no beleefin
in teh Ceiling Cat, and he is reel, I will be getting pwned. If there no Ceiling Cat, no matter anywai. I think I is beleefin in teh Ceiling
Cat."
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geoffreylaw313 |
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The only advice I can really give is the clean break approach. Odds are your parents aren't going to change because they see their actions as justified and
thus holy/ordained by gawd. Likewise, you would be better off without being abused.
It's interesting how gawds "not-so" unconditional love in the pentecostal faith effects parents unconditional love. Making parents love "not-so" unconditional as well. |
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agnosticostal |
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breaking ties with your parents...that's a tough one... I still talk to them by phone every now and then, but through therapy, I'm still undoing the
damage they did, and probably will be for a long time.
I have learned to get my emotional needs met through other people, such as extended family and my friends. It's hard and takes some time to adjust...you may find that strengthening your connections with extended family and friends helps.
Last Edited By: agnosticostal
01/28/09 15:56:17.
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Lutherius |
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Anyone who claims that this is easy is an idiot, as you probably already know. The problem is that family forms an unbreakable bond with us for better or for
worse. They are part of our world view and we cannot change that - just like we cannot change the fact that the English language is a permanent part of our
mental make-up, among other things.
A clean break might work out for a small percentage of people where there is perhaps abuse and criminal acts involved. For most people, a clean break is out of the question. In fact a clean break is definitely a sign of an extremely dysfunctional relationship, in many cases going both ways. There are other options for the overwhelming majority of cases. What is usually needed is distance, boundaries, and demanded respect. Often this does not even take words. Do not argue religion. When the subject comes up, refuse to talk about it. When they talk religion, do not ever take the bait and speak about it. You might look up the term "operant conditioning" in the subject of behavioral psychology. There is positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement and punishment. You are looking for a particular response. Try to figure out how to apply these three ideas to MAKING them do what you want. This is a strong statement, but with Pentecostals, sometimes you have to treat them somewhat like animals, in that the only thing they understand is hard consequences. For example, you may determine that in response to them speaking about religion in front of you, that you will not speak to them for say three weeks. Or, you may immediately leave without comment when they try to witness to you. When on the telephone they mention religion, you immediately say, "Ok, I have to go - talk to you later, bye" and hang up immediately. If they do something right like not talking about religion for an entire day, maybe buy some ice cream for them or something. Punishment would be that you withhold something from them until they make amends, like demanding an apology for insulting your new way of life for example. Just remember that this is not easy. A clean break is the last resort if you at all costs find yourself in a situation where you have to preserve your sanity by breaking the relationship.
Lutherius
"I cannot and I will not recant. Here I stand; I can do no other." Martin Luther Ex-Pentecostal Forums Lutherius' Blog (Archived Essays) Pentecostal Watchdog Society (Yahoo Allied Group) derkrash@earthlink.net (My Personal Email) |
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scribe2007 |
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Looking4truth wrote: That is SO true. A great way to sum up p/c! So sorry to hear your stories on this thread.
Cruelty I believe is just one of the dark fruits of pentecostalism. - PepperMintPaty
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Conservatarian |
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whyicantbelieve wrote:I can't break off my relationship with my parents, since I still live with them. I do try to shun my father as much as possible though, as he's been acting abusively towards me, both physicly and verbaly. |
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whyicantbelieve |
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Thanks to everyone who posted here. This is an extremely difficult situation for me.. it feels very heartbreaking. I don't think I would have been able to
get to this point, I am just like Stargy was describing, being reeled back in and always falling for it, i don't think I would have been able to get to
this point if I wasn't in counselling. Somehow over the summer the true hopelessness and abusiveness of the situation became apparent to me and I just
finally realized that I would never be able to "fix" the relationship or make it better. (Basically I tried to set some boundaries.. and due my
dad's extreme manipulation and also somewhat good people skills.. he made my vacation in Fl (which was specifically calculated as a way to see them but not
be on their turf!) very difficult for me).
breaking ties with your parents...that's a tough one...I've had to put a gulf between my parents and myself for the past couple of years so I can have room to be myself and do what *I* want to do. I still talk to them by phone every now and then, but through therapy, I'm still undoing the damage they did, and probably will be for a long time. >> agnostical this is how it is for me as well. I do not want to *think* how much I have spent on therapy so far (don't want to dream how much more I might have to spend..! I know that the damage that was done is pretty bad) to get over this stuff. You know I spoke to my father on the phone a few days ago for the first time in two months. I have been avoiding his calls since realizing that the relationship was not going to get any better but this is still all so new to me, sometimes I wonder if I thinking the right thing! I spent so long thinking of them as "God" almost.. and always forgiving and forgetting and being reeled back in, not being reeled back in and seeing them for who they truly are.. feels so strange, I just picked up the phone the other day, out of the sheer strangeness of it. I guess I thought I should at least say hello for some reason. He started telling me though, the church gave them a pastor's appreciation gift/wants to give me one too.. so he wants to send the money to my bank account (I told him please don't send the money it will mess up the goverment's assessment of my need for a student loan/help) then he told me I ought to write a letter to thank the board of elders! Then he added a couple more things I should do. *sigh* I was very hurt. The thing is that my growing farther away seems to have no effect on him at all, .. and I don't know if I want to have a relationship with someone who will abuse me if I don't watch them every minute.. |
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tandc90 |
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Sometimes the best relationship is no relationship. While I don't have the religious issues with my parents, I do have other issues with my father, who was
emotionally abusive. Abuse and manipulation are the issue. Religion is just the means. I haven't spoken to him in 18 years. About 5 years ago I had the
sudden and shocking realization that he was never, ever, ever going to be who I wanted him to be. That day was never going to arrive nor was the past ever
going to change. I wasn't going to wake up one day to a past with a wonderful father or even a present with a wonderful father. I was even shocked to
realize I'd been waiting for it as I'd thought I was long since over all that. I went through several weeks of a weird type of disconnected grief for
that little girl who was never going to have a kind father. In the end though it helped me to realize that it was okay to not have a relationship with him. I
wanted him to change. He wanted me to change. Neither of us could. He wanted perfection and even then it wouldn't be enough. I wanted decency.
I have to say not having him in my life is much better than having him in my life. It was exhausting to always be on the defense. |
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whyicantbelieve |
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Tandc thank you for sharing. That sounds so much like the realization that I had.. even the "sensation" you're discribing that weird disconnected sense (I thought it was sheer shock ?.. you know the shock of grief.. just seeing what you've lost and being unable to believe it ?) I always thought that we would somehow 'fix' it. I always thought that if I could just get it right or I always thought there was some overarching truth or something like you know when you're a kid and your parents punish you and you tell them you don't love them anymore and they say "you'll be grateful for this when you're older." I was always waiting for that.. 'enlightenment' of being older I guess.. I thought I would hit this enlightenment someday and understand my parents.. or at least I always imagined in my mind having children and my parents being loving and doting grandparents. This summer it hit me so suddenly that that would never happen. It's really weird to suddenly realize isn't it ? My friends and people around me who have been supporting me for years said to me "ohhh we've seen this coming for a long time!" but I felt totally stunned. I guess you could say it was a similar experience to leaving pentecostalism (or leaving the faith.. ). For years and years you see the problems and struggle to reconcile them and you always think it will be fixed.. and then one day it all comes crashing down and you're just stunned. |
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lozza |
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I'm still struggling with a lot of guilt about not responding to my mother, but the simple truth is I couldn't take any more emotional manipulation.
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Taco Fred |
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When I first quit pente, I caught hell everytime I even spoke with my Mom. Over time, it is not as bad. Even though every few years, we have a major arguement
over church, jezus, and the fact that I am going straight to hell and could care less.
Celebrating 25 years of being Pentecost free!
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tandc90 |
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whyicantbelieve wrote: Yes, that's it exactly. Amazing. It took me 13 years to realize all that time I'd been in waiting mode and had been blind to it. Actually the realization happened in an instant. I still remember where I was and what I was doing. I was gardening and just casually going over things in my head when suddenly I was faced with the reality of the situation. I can't describe how, but it was a positive turning point for me after I got over the shock and grief. Hopefully it will be for you. I guess in giving up the pointless hope for change it enabled me to accept things as they are and simply move on. I hardly ever think of him these days.
Last Edited By: tandc90
11/23/08 11:03:07.
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whyicantbelieve |
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I can't describe how, but it was a positive turning point for me after I got over the shock and grief. Hopefully it will be for you. I guess in giving up
the pointless hope for change it enabled me to accept things as they are and simply move on. I hardly ever think of him these days. >>
thank you for sharing Tandc. I feel somewhat encouraged reading what you wrote here and it is so validating to know that someone else has felt the same sense of shock. It has been very lonely and scary for me dealing with all this. I am in therapy but my counsellor doesn't really say much, he knows he's on painful and sensitive ground when it comes to the issue of someone's parents, even parents that have been abusive. And it is really difficult for me to even begin to know how to explain to someone what I went through growing up (starting with the fact that first of all I am sure no one will believe me... generally it seems to be a popular idea that parents are all fundamentally "good" and trying their best.. and somehow the parent child relationship is sacred). It is kind of like the pentecostal experience itself, it would sound so far fetched unless you see it with your own eyes. |
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tandc90 |
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I'm glad to hear you're feeling a bit encouraged. I can promise you it will get better with time. There will probably come a day when you realize
it's been a long, long time since you've felt actively bad about the whole situation.
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freedsorta |
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whyicantbelieve wrote: I would love to be able, especially at my age (59), to give you a positive view of this, but I can't. However, my experience, obviously, does not set the pattern (rolls eyes). But I could have written what you did, almost to the final period. What they did: Although we were well over 1000 miles apart, they continued their harassment through letters and their rare phone calls, and while I was still in that church, they even showed up without telling me they were coming -- well over 1000 miles from their home, in a place I had thought I was safe from them. It was horrible. What I did: First, I told them to start using my real, legal name -- something they refused to do. When they refused, I kept reminding them kindly.
When Father called and, with a continued stream of words, harrassed me shamelessly, I quietly and respectfully told him that he would either let me answer his
charges or I would hang up. I warned him a second time. And when it continued, I answered, "Good bye, Daddy," and hung up quietly.
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stubborn envelope |
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My father is still in prison; the only contact I have with him is the occasional letter, to which I usually promptly respond. He has apologized many times in
the letters for his abuse of me, abuse of my mother, and his alcoholism. I accept his apology and do not resent him, but I don't really ever remember
having an attachment to him, and I don't feel much of one now. I want him to get out of prison and do better, but what will really happen remains to be
seen. If he ever stabalizes himself, maybe we will work on the relationship again, but it's going to start out very tentative. I will not be victimized
again; I am an adult now.
I rarely had contact with my mother over a period of about four years. Eventually I decided that I wanted to do the right thing, whether she would or not, and I apologized for anything I did that was wrong, although I did not forget that my mother was physically, emotionally, and verbally abusive to me. She didn't respond to the apology well, but instead let me have her usual stream of insults. She blamed me for the abuse she put me through. She told me that she didn't understand me, that I grew up too fast, that this somehow absolved her behavior. I ended that phone call by hanging up and didn't have any contact with her after that. A year later, maybe less, my mom finally apologized. Honestly, I thought that would never happen, but it did. I now have a better relationship with her, but I've had to set up barriers. My mother has improved as a person, but she is not completely healthy in her mind or stable. That is to be expected, considering that she has suffered much of the same abuse I've gone through with her and others, and there is a lot of emotional and mental instability in my family. I talk to her only occasionally on the phone; I can visit her for a few days at a time now, but I started out only visiting one or two days. (For a long time I refused to visit her at all because it always resulted in me being verbally abused or blamed for anything she didn't like: she once told me that my sexuality was making her father die faster.) My mother is still manipulative. She has tried to manipulate me with religion. Though she isn't Pentecostal, she know I once was. When that didn't work, she would try to manipulate me from another angle. The sad part is that my mother is actually trying to encourage me to make unwise sexual decisions in her desire to change my sexual orientation. I've decided that the next time she does this, I will hang up on her. If I am talking to her in person, I will get up and leave the room. I've been through a lot with a relative I lived with as well. She did not abuse me physically, and she was not Pentecostal, though she has been influenced by fundamentalism, something I consider almost as nasty as Pentecostalism. She was punitive and harsh, called any members of my family I have a relationship with to accuse me of devil worship and all kinds of things. When I made straight As, she would ask me why one of my grades was low (like a 93) and threaten to ground me. When my grades went up, same thing. Nothing I ever did was good enough. In her eyes, I was the child and she had the right to treat me any way she #$++ well liked. My relationship with her has also improved, but once again I set the barriers, and I take charge. She will never lay a hand on me, and if she does, I will do something about it. I will not allow her to give me guilt trips. I will not let her scream and take her temper out on me. She will not accuse me of devil possession or call my family members to tell lies. And I will not allow her to use people I am close to, to manipulate and control me. I hardly saw her for two years, and if she ever does any of these things again, I will make sure I will not visit her, and if I need somewhere to go, I have other family members; in a year or so, hopefully I will have my own apartment. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the best thing to do, though it is very painful -- I should know -- is to erect barriers that you will not allow to be crossed. If the situation is severe enough, there may need to be a clean break; that break might be temporary, as it was with me, or it may be permanent. Even if you decide that it is safe and healthy to connect with your parents again, like me, you will have to erect barriers. You cannot let those barriers be crossed. You must be the one to take charge. I wish you luck. I'm sure many people on these forums can identify in varying ways with what you are going through. Peace, James
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all
science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are
closed."
-- Albert Einstein |
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lozza |
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Amazing post, James. I'm glad to see you setting the boundaries.
She blamed me for the abuse she put me through.This is so common. |
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whyicantbelieve |
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lozza wrote:My dad tried to do this to me this summer and weirdly enough, it backfired on him, I just saw that he was to blame for the abuse even more. I had confronted him about the abuse and he said to me "oh it was because you were so stubborn you would never give your mother a break.. you would just keep bugging her and bugging her until she gave you what you wanted" and I don't know how I did it (I was never able to do this before.. I have always bought his lies about me being to blame for the abuse) but as he was saying this to me this summer I just realized "hey you WANTED me to act like that.. you enjoyed having me slightly emotionally unhinged. It was like a parent that had broken a kid's back telling them "oh it's because your back was broken.. you were such a burden to me.. that's why I abused you" and the kid thinking "hey but wait a minute who broke my back in the first place ?!" then you just feel even more mad. Freedsorta : I felt sad reading your story. That is really a lot to go through. I can identify with the hoping and hoping that you have finally managed to set strong enough boundaires and then your parents violating them no matter what. This is what I went through with my parents. I was trying and trying and hoping and feeling that if I just "did things right" we could have a good relationship. Then finally this summer I thought I had foolproof boundaries and my parents managed to mess them up even then and it hit me very suddenly that they were determined to be abusive and violate my boundaries.. and it was never going to work. It was and is really sad for me. Sometimes I want to just scream "this is not the way I wanted my life!" Update on me: After not talking to my parents for 2 months.. My dad called a few weeks ago basically with a list of things I "should do", a list of things I had "failed" to do (this is even after I told him I'm breaking it off with them..) and I was really hurt by phone call. I thought after not speaking to me for two months maybe he might be a bit more sensitive to my feelings or at least try to be on his best behaviour but instead he told me how I don't measure up and stuff I failed to do. When I got off the phone in the next couple days I noticed I felt..I don't know exactly how to describe this..except as a very strong sense of "disquiet." I just felt this sense that something was *wrong* in the world.. things weren't right. I felt suddenly almost an underlying panick about every little thing. (Which is how I used to be before this summer! I used to regularly freak out about things.) And I realized, that this semester since not talking to them.. I had felt quite calm. I hadn't been feeling so panicky about life the way I did before I really don't know how to describe this sense of disquiet and sort of disturbance that my father imparts to my world but I think it has something to do with the judgemental, "everything is evil and to be feared" pentecostal worldview. You know, there is this constant sense that "there is evil in the world" and at least with my parents, it's like they are so judgemental, everywhere they look they see evil, every other person they look at they see the bad in them not the good, they see people as bad.. I guess if you have that kind of worldview.. even when you go home at night.. even when you're not "witnessing" or exhorting people away from "worldliness" you have that depressive/irritated sense of something being wrong in the world, of people having "sin" in them.. when your head hits the pillow at night. I really don't know how to describe it.. but just talking to my father.. I got this feeling from him.. and it disrupted my life. I felt I could not deal with life for a few days. I feel more than ever now that even if he finally sorts it out enough to be respectful to me, I just can't do it, it is like something about his worldview and his disquiet in his own life, disrupts me emotionally.. it makes me panicky and unhappy and unable to deal with my own life.
Last Edited By: whyicantbelieve
12/07/08 01:27:14.
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